The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Warpmind on Wed May 18, 2016 8:21 am

Colin nodded to Adjan, "I hope for Liv's sake we can get some leniency on the last part, as well... The man's a bit of an ass, but I think seeing the consequences of what he did might serve better than executing him. Hmm... could you manage to procure a cupcake, one with abundant frosting?"
He stroked Liv on her back, "If I have to bludgeon the guard at his cell, you'll get to see him when we get back... Hopefully, though, I'll only have to ask the guard to let us in."
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze on Wed May 18, 2016 9:11 am

Colin nodded to Adjan, "I hope for Liv's sake we can get some leniency on the last part, as well... The man's a bit of an ass, but I think seeing the consequences of what he did might serve better than executing him. Hmm... could you manage to procure a cupcake, one with abundant frosting?"

"Ironic as it might be for one of my Tradition to say so Mr Wainwright, death is not always the best teacher, however I doubt there will be much leniency for Ulv Bergen, he will suffer and die, and what mercy there might be will only be to save him from something worse."
Adjan said then the scratched his head.
"A cupcake...well there have to be a bakery around here somewhere, if you watch over the girl I will go and see what I can find."
He offered.

He stroked Liv on her back, "If I have to bludgeon the guard at his cell, you'll get to see him when we get back... Hopefully, though, I'll only have to ask the guard to let us in."

Liv nodded and looked at Colin through her tears.
"Thank you Sir."
She said and begun to wipe at her tears with one of her tiny hands.
"If he is sent to a trial...I want to say goodbye."
She muttered sadly.
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Warpmind on Wed May 18, 2016 10:10 am

Colin shrugged, "Hardly seems ironic or counterintuitive at all. Your Tradition kills to preserve, to save, not to teach. Death is a rather poor teacher in most cases, I should think. Excepting medical school, of course."
He nodded, "I think I'll be on my knees here for a while. You go - I'd wager the cook has just the thing."

He nodded to Liv, "I don't see how he can escape trial... but that's not the same as having a predetermined outcome of the trial."
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze on Wed May 18, 2016 10:18 am

Colin shrugged, "Hardly seems ironic or counterintuitive at all. Your Tradition kills to preserve, to save, not to teach. Death is a rather poor teacher in most cases, I should think. Excepting medical school, of course."

"True, then again death can teach a soul many things, and it might make it's next incarnation wiser."
Adjan said and shrugged.
"But that is not always the case."

He nodded, "I think I'll be on my knees here for a while. You go - I'd wager the cook has just the thing."

Adjan just nodded, he gave Liv a concerned look, then he left the room after saying.
"I will be right back then."

He nodded to Liv, "I don't see how he can escape trial... but that's not the same as having a predetermined outcome of the trial."

"So he might survive a trial Sir?"
Liv asked then she added sadly.
"Do you think my dad is afraid, I mean if he is facing a trial where he might be hurt so badly, do you think he is scared?"

(OOC: I am going back home after visiting my mother to day so I will be on a train all day and I have a early appointment tomorrow so I might be replying a bit slowly until tomorrow afternoon.)
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Warpmind on Wed May 18, 2016 12:19 pm

Colin nodded to Adjan, "It's certainly not a reliable form of education, it seems."

He patted Liv on the back, "There's always hope... Expect the worst, but hope for the best."
He grimaced, "If he isn't afraid, he's a bigger fool than anyone would suspect him to be. Last I spoke with him, he was terrified... but he feared more for you than for himself. Which, I suppose, speaks in his favour..."

((OOC: Take your time.))
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze on Wed May 18, 2016 3:32 pm

Colin nodded to Adjan, "It's certainly not a reliable form of education, it seems."

"Well it is more that it do not always work and that for some they need to get the same lesson more than once."
He said and grinned.

He patted Liv on the back, "There's always hope... Expect the worst, but hope for the best."

Liv sigh sadly but she nodded at what you where saying.

He grimaced, "If he isn't afraid, he's a bigger fool than anyone would suspect him to be. Last I spoke with him, he was terrified... but he feared more for you than for himself. Which, I suppose, speaks in his favour..."

"I am afraid for him as well."
Liv said then she looks down.
"The Traditions laws can be so horrible at times. I know the laws are needed, but they are still horrible."
She muttered.
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by s7trif3 on Wed May 18, 2016 4:48 pm

Sometimes, when one was not finding much in the way of useful intel, it was due to asking the wrong questions. Other times, it was that the captured did not know very much or did not want to tell you anything. In this case, he tried to think if he had anything else to ask him that he had overlooked but came up with a blank for the moment.

"Miss Jarden is in the other room I think." He said as he made a symbol with his wand and the vampire gasped as the invisible force holding him pressed him against the washer and floor harder. "I am just keeping you still Mr Vincent, I am not going to harm you."

After a beat, Adley turned his head from Vincent to give Hayden a warning look but did not say anything or draw any more attention to it. He hoped that the ex-Tremere used a nickname as most in their world did. Still it was best not to drop names. Even if he did hope they had a way to soften his memories...cautiously he moved toward the door and then nudged it open. He kept an eye on them as best he could, ready for any funny business. Then gave a glance to the interior of the other room to see who was there and if he could get someone's attention without leaving Hayden in there alone.

// no problem this part of the week is gonna be busier for me too I think
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze on Wed May 18, 2016 5:05 pm

After a beat, Adley turned his head from Vincent to give Hayden a warning look but did not say anything or draw any more attention to it. He hoped that the ex-Tremere used a nickname as most in their world did. Still it was best not to drop names.

Hayden look at your for a moment unsure of what your look means then he get it and simply nods that he have gotten your warning and would not be using any more names.

Even if he did hope they had a way to soften his memories...cautiously he moved toward the door and then nudged it open. He kept an eye on them as best he could, ready for any funny business.

Nate did nothing as you went to look out the door, he just sat there looking nervous. Hayden kept his eyes on the vampire and a good grip on his wand.

Then gave a glance to the interior of the other room to see who was there and if he could get someone's attention without leaving Hayden in there alone.

The two hedge wizards and the vampire girl was still down in the basement as well as Jacob who was slowly getting to his feet, perhaps he was done healing the two Umbroods. Johnson stands discussing his plans for the cleanup with his brother and Miss Jarden. Magda and Jerome was probably off looking for the talismans.

(OOC: Well it seams I do not get to go home today after all, the trains have no electricity so I am going to be staying here at my mother's place for a few more days, which means I miss my appointment but well what can you do.)
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Warpmind on Wed May 18, 2016 7:03 pm

Colin arched an eyebrow with a faint smile, "I think we can agree, then, that pain is a far more effective tutor than death. Pain, after all, means you have to deal with the lesson in this life, rather than the next. Plus, it makes for hilarious home videos, I suppose..."

He sighed, lightly ruffling Liv's hair, "House Janissary acts as a secret police, correct? I think this is the point where you learn that law and justice aren't always mutually inclusive... Every now and then, you will come to a situation where you will have to choose between the two... You might want to remember this feeling right now for those times - sometimes, innocent bystanders will be caught up in grief from either or both. Don't let this cloud your judgment, but don't let it be treated as an irrelevant concern, either. Everything you do will at some point point back to you, and at that point, it is best to have a clear conscience."
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze on Wed May 18, 2016 7:24 pm

Colin arched an eyebrow with a faint smile, "I think we can agree, then, that pain is a far more effective tutor than death. Pain, after all, means you have to deal with the lesson in this life, rather than the next. Plus, it makes for hilarious home videos, I suppose..."

"Ah yes, though then if we look at it that way then Paradox is the greatest teacher of all."
The Euthanatos said and grinned.
"It tend to teach mages many things in our desire to avoid it."

He sighed, lightly ruffling Liv's hair, "House Janissary acts as a secret police, correct? I think this is the point where you learn that law and justice aren't always mutually inclusive... Every now and then, you will come to a situation where you will have to choose between the two... You might want to remember this feeling right now for those times - sometimes, innocent bystanders will be caught up in grief from either or both. Don't let this cloud your judgment, but don't let it be treated as an irrelevant concern, either. Everything you do will at some point point back to you, and at that point, it is best to have a clear conscience."

Liv looks at Colin for a while then she nodded.
"Yes in a way we are a secret police, we help House Guernicus and we are also internal control."
She explained.
"Are you talking about how some think that it should be the letter of the law that is important Sir and other that it is the meaning behind those letters, like for example it is forbidden to cooperate with our enemies but the meaning behind it is that a mage should not sell out the Traditions to the enemy, the intention of the law is not to punish someone who work with a group of Technocrat to stop a Marauder from razing a city to the ground."
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Warpmind on Wed May 18, 2016 8:38 pm

Colin nodded to Liv, "Precisely. Laws aren't supposed to be about punishing the guilty, but about protecting the innocent, protecting society. That's why Javert ends up... ah, you are probably a little young for Les Misérables, though. Sometimes, someone breaks those laws willfully, and they need to be punished in accordance with the crime, but usually, someone with the purest intentions and beneficial results breaks some law or regulation, Sleeper or Tradition law alike, and a wise agent of justice will let them off with a warning, while a less wise agent of law will pursue them as though they acted with malice and vastly harmful consequences. That's one of the problems with taking old scripture - theological or judicial - literally. The world changes, and language evolves, and magic or technology which couldn't have been conceived of by those who wrote it down so long ago will have appeared in the meantime. As a perfect example, I understand the Avatar was an alien concept when the laws were written, and the Gilgul rite appeared even later than the recognition of Avatars. I'll let you draw your own conclusions about its appropriateness under the Laws..."

((OOC: Yay, trying to distract the little girl from her own worries by bringing up a judicial philosophy debate instead. Wink ))
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze on Wed May 18, 2016 9:05 pm

Colin nodded to Liv, "Precisely. Laws aren't supposed to be about punishing the guilty, but about protecting the innocent, protecting society. That's why Javert ends up... ah, you are probably a little young for Les Misérables, though.

"Yes but are not punishing the guilty part of protecting the innocent, if crimes are feared then the innocent will not be harmed."
The little girl said.
"I have heard the music, songs from the musicals are on talent shows on TV but I do not understand the story."

Sometimes, someone breaks those laws willfully, and they need to be punished in accordance with the crime, but usually, someone with the purest intentions and beneficial results breaks some law or regulation, Sleeper or Tradition law alike, and a wise agent of justice will let them off with a warning, while a less wise agent of law will pursue them as though they acted with malice and vastly harmful consequences.

"My Master say we can not do that, for then justice will just be about individual judgment and opinion, while if everyone get judged the same for breaking the same law then there is equality before the law."
Liv protested.
"That is what my Master says Sir and he is really smart."

That's one of the problems with taking old scripture - theological or judicial - literally. The world changes, and language evolves, and magic or technology which couldn't have been conceived of by those who wrote it down so long ago will have appeared in the meantime.

"My Master is Muslim but he do not follow everything in the Quran for he says that we no longer live in a desert nation fifteen hundred years ago, so while he believe in the core of it, he says allot of the laws and rules are outdated, that is the same thing right?"
The little girl asked.

As a perfect example, I understand the Avatar was an alien concept when the laws were written, and the Gilgul rite appeared even later than the recognition of Avatars. I'll let you draw your own conclusions about its appropriateness under the Laws..."

"I do not like to think about that ritual, it gives me nightmares."
Liv said sounding scared.
"They did not know what Avatars where? Who did they talk with when they felt alone then? How did they work magick?"
She asked sounding confused.

(OOC: I am more concerned with the discussing Gilgul with a ten year old mage.)

(OOC 2: I STed for a group once that cared nothing for mage law, so I took Javert, made him into a Quaesitor and placed him as the new senior Enforcer in the PCs Tribunal, that whipped them into shape...until they kidnapped his apprentice and assassinated him.)
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Warpmind on Wed May 18, 2016 9:20 pm

Colin nodded, "Punishing the guilty is certainly part of protecting the innocent - but which of the two should be prioritized? If punishing the guilty becomes the focus of the law, then at some point, you will run out of innocents to protect, because at some point, everyone does something, intentionally or not, that might be viewed as breaking a law in one way or another. Les Misérables is... well, I'm sure you'll get to watch the musical, or read the book once you're a little older; it's a fairly heavy piece of fiction in a historical setting."
He smiled, "I don't question your Master's cleverness, but consider this - if two Mages barter with a Technocrat, one trades, say, a supply of tass in exchange for an item made of Primium, while the other trades a little piece of information in exchange for assistance with taking down a Nephandus, both have technically aided the Traditions' enemies, but are both guilty of a crime? There are numerous circumstantial concerns that should be considered as ameliorating or aggravating."
He nodded, "That's precisely what I'm talking about. The Bible has old-testament prohibitions against shellfish. Sensible when you don't have refridgeration in the desert, but long since outdated."
He sighed, "I agree, the ritual is not a pleasant subject, but it was the only on-point example I could come up with right now... I don't know what they might've communicated with, but they worked their magic much like we do, I suppose..."

((OOC: Point.))
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze on Wed May 18, 2016 9:36 pm

Colin nodded, "Punishing the guilty is certainly part of protecting the innocent - but which of the two should be prioritized? If punishing the guilty becomes the focus of the law, then at some point, you will run out of innocents to protect, because at some point, everyone does something, intentionally or not, that might be viewed as breaking a law in one way or another.

"I think protecting the innocent is more important than punishing the guilty. My Master says that since I have magick, I have to protect those around me who do not have that advantage, that I have to take more responsibility than those that are not mages."
She said then she sigh.
"Not everyone breaks Tradition law Sir, it is pretty specific."

Les Misérables is... well, I'm sure you'll get to watch the musical, or read the book once you're a little older; it's a fairly heavy piece of fiction in a historical setting."

"It is a book Sir? I like books."
Liv says and smiles.
"I guess I will read it when I get older then."

He smiled, "I don't question your Master's cleverness, but consider this - if two Mages barter with a Technocrat, one trades, say, a supply of tass in exchange for an item made of Primium, while the other trades a little piece of information in exchange for assistance with taking down a Nephandus, both have technically aided the Traditions' enemies, but are both guilty of a crime?

"Both are guilty of breaking a Protocol yes. I would say the second one is more guilty as he trades information which could really harm the Traditions, while the first one do something that only affect himself really but both are guilty and needs to be punished."

There are numerous circumstantial concerns that should be considered as ameliorating or aggravating."

"Yes, though both commit a serious crime."

He nodded, "That's precisely what I'm talking about. The Bible has old-testament prohibitions against shellfish. Sensible when you don't have refridgeration in the desert, but long since outdated."

"Yes my Master says that as well, though he do not eat swine, he choose not to, he do not think he will be punished by God if he do."
The little girl said.

He sighed, "I agree, the ritual is not a pleasant subject, but it was the only on-point example I could come up with right now... I don't know what they might've communicated with, but they worked their magic much like we do, I suppose..."

"Perhaps their Avatars did not want to talk with them Sir."
The little girl says.
"Mine talks to me all the time though, it is my friend."
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by s7trif3 on Wed May 18, 2016 9:42 pm

Adley asked the assembled, "Can someone please come here for a few moments to take my place?" He couched it in terms as polite as he could, wary of ordering about people several ranks higher than him. Or at least being seen to do that, even if that wasn't the intention. He noted that Jerome had not come back yet. Apparently Magda had not found anything of dire importance in the items left behind, as she too was not present. As he kept an eye at the door, he heard his phone message go off and made a mental note to check it over when his hands were free. Literally as well as figuratively, as he was still holding a stake in his hand, partially swaddled by bedding.
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Tane Karyak on Wed May 18, 2016 9:57 pm

Friday:

A grocery store! Let's find lily, go to the store and home! Ruau will be peased. Tane declared and offered her a hand to raise from the seat and go do their things. Tane called Coawa and asked what he wanted to eat and they went off to find lily.

Saturday:
Just call me Tane. he said, as he saw the smoke. As he could see the shaman, he bowed to him, his song steady. I know i'm beyond my place here, great one. BBut i'm here to help. I'm a healer, such as the first owner of your shape. Can i try to help you with that torn at your side?
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Warpmind on Wed May 18, 2016 10:33 pm

Colin nodded, "At least you are on the right track, then... And to be honest, at one point or another, it's pretty much inevitable for a Mage to accidentally cross the first or eighth law... Either a snide remark about someone who turns out to be of greater knowledge, or doing something loud and flashy in front of a Sleeper."
He smiled, "Les Misérables is indeed a novel... written by the same man who wrote the Hunchback of Notre Dame, I think. They are... not particularly happy stories, though. The Hunchback in particular."
Shrugging, he replied, "True, both are guilty, yet as I understand it, if the objective is to thwart the Nephandi, most things become pardonable, even dealing with the Technocracy... It is true that both committed a serious crime, but one did it for personal benefit, the other did it, well, to defeat a larger foe. The punishment should by all means fit the crime, but I don't think the issue is a simple, binary "yes or no"-question."
He chuckled for a bit, "Actually, I suspect your Master might be more likely to be punished by his digestion than by God for eating pork... I did read an article suggesting that a lot of Jews and Muslims have a hereditary issue with certain prohibited foods like pork; it's a complicated thing, but it does sound plausible."
He grinned, "Mine never talks, he just makes faces at me in the mirror. And on the rarest of occasions, takes over the control of my body when I am unable to do it... That's happened twice, I think."
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze on Thu May 19, 2016 4:42 am

Adley:

Adley asked the assembled, "Can someone please come here for a few moments to take my place?" He couched it in terms as polite as he could, wary of ordering about people several ranks higher than him. Or at least being seen to do that, even if that wasn't the intention.

"Yeah no problem."
Johnson said, he gave a final instruction to his brother and Miss Jarden and then headed over to you.
"What do you need me to do Sodalis? Keep watch over the prisoner?"
He asked and glanced into the wash room.

Colin:

Colin nodded, "At least you are on the right track, then... And to be honest, at one point or another, it's pretty much inevitable for a Mage to accidentally cross the first or eighth law... Either a snide remark about someone who turns out to be of greater knowledge, or doing something loud and flashy in front of a Sleeper."

"The Protocol about not insulting those of greater knowledge is a problem, because it is not well defined, respect those of greater knowledge can mean anything and some Enforcers see all insults, however small to breach this while others think only actual insubordination do."
Liv agreed.
"But other laws you can avoid breaking if you are careful."

He smiled, "Les Misérables is indeed a novel... written by the same man who wrote the Hunchback of Notre Dame, I think. They are... not particularly happy stories, though. The Hunchback in particular."

"I have seen the Disney movie."
The little girl said and grinned.

Shrugging, he replied, "True, both are guilty, yet as I understand it, if the objective is to thwart the Nephandi, most things become pardonable, even dealing with the Technocracy... It is true that both committed a serious crime, but one did it for personal benefit, the other did it, well, to defeat a larger foe. The punishment should by all means fit the crime, but I don't think the issue is a simple, binary "yes or no"-question."

"And what if the Technocracy later use the information they got in the deal to kill other Tradition mages or destroy your Chantry? This situation have shown up in Tribunals a few times where Tradition mages have cooperation with the Union to take down Nephandi, in instances where just cooperation have taken place and there have been no exchange of information the punishments are usually light, but where information and things that could be used against us have passed hands, then the guilty party should be punished even if they won over the Nephandi in the process."
The child said sternly.

He chuckled for a bit, "Actually, I suspect your Master might be more likely to be punished by his digestion than by God for eating pork... I did read an article suggesting that a lot of Jews and Muslims have a hereditary issue with certain prohibited foods like pork; it's a complicated thing, but it does sound plausible."

"Like and allergy? I have a friend who is allergic to pineapple, she have to go to the hospital if she eats it."
Liv said and looked at you with big eyes.

He grinned, "Mine never talks, he just makes faces at me in the mirror. And on the rarest of occasions, takes over the control of my body when I am unable to do it... That's happened twice, I think."

"It makes faces at you that is cute."
Liv said and giggles.
"It can take over your body Sir? That is sort of scary."

Tane:

Friday:

"A grocery store it is then, there is one just around the corner."
Herietta said then she raised an eyebrow and asked.
"Who is Ruau?"
The hedge wizard got to her feet and fetched her black coat and a coffin purse.
"Let us find Lily."
She agreed.

After you look around for the young girl for a moment you find her in one of the hallways talking with a young man with pale hair wearing a tshirt with faded print about a metal band and washed out jeans. Lily smiles to you and the man nodded his head in your direction though he gave Henrietta a bit of a smile.

Saturday:

"Tane then, well then you must call me Ebele."
The Deaconess said and gave a weak smile before she winced.

The old shaman gave you a polite bow back but he was still skeptical about being seen by anyone but his own host, very skeptical.
"You are a healer young one?"
He said in a language you did not speak and yet you understood him.
"Yes this thorn do hinder me and it hurts the one I walk with."
He agreed though it was clear he did not yet know if he could trust you.
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Warpmind on Thu May 19, 2016 8:45 am

Colin nodded, "Oh, absolutely, most of the laws are difficult to break accidentally... but that first law opens for a slippery slope, and that is dangerous."
He grinned wryly, "The Disney version, yes... you had better not read that book for a while, either - it is rather less happy than the Disney version. Much like The Little Mermaid, actually."
He nodded, "I concede the point; using the example of trading information for help might have set the bar a bit high."
He shook his head, "Not quite like an allergy - allergies are when your immune system overreacts to something. What I was referring to is more like... you know how cats are not supposed to be put on a vegetarian diet? Cats are carnivores; they can't properly digest vegetables, so feeding them plants gives them an upset stomach."
He nodded, "It's less scary than it might sound on the surface... Like I said, I think it has happened twice; the first time was when I was hit by a missile, and he landed my helicopter for me, the second time... was a little over an hour ago, actually - I was slipping into unconsciousness, while a Fallen tried to... do something horrible to me. So since I could not protect myself and my Avatar properly, it took over and used my skills and abilities on my behalf. I think... I think it's very reluctant to do so unless absolutely necessary; mainly because I don't remember precisely what happened, and thus I can't learn from the situation. My not learning would be inconvenient for my Avatar in the long run, you know..."
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze on Thu May 19, 2016 11:27 am

Colin nodded, "Oh, absolutely, most of the laws are difficult to break accidentally... but that first law opens for a slippery slope, and that is dangerous."

"What is a slippery slope Sir? I know what one is that you can slide down during winter but what is a slippery slope in this context?"
The little girl asked and scratched her head, she was a smart girl and mature for her age but she was still just a child.

He grinned wryly, "The Disney version, yes... you had better not read that book for a while, either - it is rather less happy than the Disney version. Much like The Little Mermaid, actually."

"I have read the fairytale of The Little Mermaid, it did not have a happy ending no, but the mermaid did get a soul in the end. Do you think that fay have souls Sir? Most fairytales say they do not."
Liv asked.
"There is a Merinita in my Chantry, she can talk with fairies."

He nodded, "I concede the point; using the example of trading information for help might have set the bar a bit high."

"O...ok..."
The little girl said and scratched her head looking a bit confused.

He shook his head, "Not quite like an allergy - allergies are when your immune system overreacts to something. What I was referring to is more like... you know how cats are not supposed to be put on a vegetarian diet? Cats are carnivores; they can't properly digest vegetables, so feeding them plants gives them an upset stomach."

"Cat's cant have vegetables? My Master's familiar get some vegetable mesh with her meat meals so that she get more vitamins, is that bad for her?"
The little girl asked sounding confused.
"Is it like our Asian Bonisagus can not have milk products, and none of the others at the Chantry actually drink milk but me?"
She asked.

He nodded, "It's less scary than it might sound on the surface... Like I said, I think it has happened twice; the first time was when I was hit by a missile, and he landed my helicopter for me, the second time... was a little over an hour ago, actually - I was slipping into unconsciousness, while a Fallen tried to... do something horrible to me. So since I could not protect myself and my Avatar properly, it took over and used my skills and abilities on my behalf.

"I am glad that your Avatar protected you Sir."
The little girl said and smiles.
"And I am glad the Nephandus could not harm you, I like you."
She said and smiles.
"You remind me of my Master."

I think... I think it's very reluctant to do so unless absolutely necessary; mainly because I don't remember precisely what happened, and thus I can't learn from the situation. My not learning would be inconvenient for my Avatar in the long run, you know..."

"I guess that makes sense Sir. Avatars want us to learn, they want us to be better than we are."
She said and smiled.
"Mine make me feel that I am never alone, she is always with me."
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Warpmind on Thu May 19, 2016 12:27 pm

Colin scratched his cheek, slightly nonplussed, "A slippery slope is when, hmm... Let us say you are in a position where people must follow your orders, or suffer a penalty. At first, there's no problem; you don't issue many orders, you don't have enough responsibilities to need others to take care of them for you. Then, work starts piling up, and you need to delegate some of your work to others. So you order some subordinates to do some of your more time-consuming or unpleasant tasks for you. One refuses, and you punish him; a fairly clear-cut affair. Then, as the workload and responsibilities increase, some of the tasks you need to handle start drifting into legal grey areas; nothing that will outright break any laws, but still, you order subordinates to do it because it is easier and lets you focus. A few of your subordinates refuse to do tasks that put them close to breaking the law, and you punish them as a matter of course. Then, years down the line, you're overworked, tired, you find yourself in a position where your work requires you to break the law... or you can order a subordinate to do so. And you punish each subordinate who refuses, because now it's become a simple thing, and then, when one subordinate agrees to do the task, breaking the law, you have them punished for that instead. That is an example of a slippery slope. It's a form of corruption; but a slow and subtle one."
He pondered, "I'm not certain whether the fey have souls, but we do have Deaconess Mara O'Connor at Steelhaven Hall. She's fey-blooded; so much as to be hurt by steel or iron. I'm fairly certain she has a soul."
He smiled, "I was imprecise again. Cats can't have a vegetarian diet, but they do eat some plant matter. But if memory serves, they need about four-fifths meat in their diet, or they get malnourished. A little bit of vegetable mash with the food should be good, though. And yes, it might be something like your Bonisagus not having milk products. Clever observation."
He grinned and ruffled Liv's hair, "I'm glad my Avatar protected me, too. I've grown fond of this body over the years. I like you, too, kid."
He nodded, "Mine feels sort of, I don't know, like I have a student at the back of my mind somewhere, always looking carefully at what I'm doing, meticulously taking notes and pointing out things to me, asking me questions about what I am doing... And then, he's a bit of a jerk sometimes, showing me things to come over the next months and years..."
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze on Thu May 19, 2016 2:30 pm

Colin scratched his cheek, slightly nonplussed, "A slippery slope is when, hmm... Let us say you are in a position where people must follow your orders, or suffer a penalty. At first, there's no problem; you don't issue many orders, you don't have enough responsibilities to need others to take care of them for you. Then, work starts piling up, and you need to delegate some of your work to others. So you order some subordinates to do some of your more time-consuming or unpleasant tasks for you. One refuses, and you punish him; a fairly clear-cut affair. Then, as the workload and responsibilities increase, some of the tasks you need to handle start drifting into legal grey areas; nothing that will outright break any laws, but still, you order subordinates to do it because it is easier and lets you focus. A few of your subordinates refuse to do tasks that put them close to breaking the law, and you punish them as a matter of course. Then, years down the line, you're overworked, tired, you find yourself in a position where your work requires you to break the law... or you can order a subordinate to do so. And you punish each subordinate who refuses, because now it's become a simple thing, and then, when one subordinate agrees to do the task, breaking the law, you have them punished for that instead. That is an example of a slippery slope. It's a form of corruption; but a slow and subtle one."

"I see, that makes sense I guess Sir."
Liv said and she pondered what you had said to her.
"So it is like if one start with the little things then it get easier to do the big things later?"
She asked.
"I guess the law can end up like that but usually I think the problem is clarity. Take the Code of Hermes, one of the points are I will not endanger the Order though my actions, now that is fine and good, but what endangers the Order is very much open to interpretation. I will not slay nor attempt to slay any member of the Order, now that is very clear cut, but some of the other points are not allowing a judge to put his or her own points of views into the rulings."
The little girl said, she seamed to have been schooled well on Hermetic Law, but then again that was natural given her future House.

He pondered, "I'm not certain whether the fey have souls, but we do have Deaconess Mara O'Connor at Steelhaven Hall. She's fey-blooded; so much as to be hurt by steel or iron. I'm fairly certain she has a soul."

"The Deaconess have to have a soul if she is a mage, my Master says that the soul is like the house the Avatar live in and if you do not have a house for it then there will not live an Avatar in you. The Merinita at my Master's Chantry I think can stand steel, but not untreated iron...I am not allowed to say her name though, I am not allowed to say the names at any at the Chantry if I do not have to for some emergency."
The little girl explained.

He smiled, "I was imprecise again. Cats can't have a vegetarian diet, but they do eat some plant matter. But if memory serves, they need about four-fifths meat in their diet, or they get malnourished. A little bit of vegetable mash with the food should be good, though. And yes, it might be something like your Bonisagus not having milk products. Clever observation."

Liv gave a big smile when you praised her.
"So then my Master's familiar should be ok and happy with her diet, that is good, she is very cute, and she can teach you any language if you sacrifice Tass to her. "
The little girl said as if having language teaching cats where the most normal thing in the world.

He grinned and ruffled Liv's hair, "I'm glad my Avatar protected me, too. I've grown fond of this body over the years. I like you, too, kid."

The little girl smiles at that and nods.

He nodded, "Mine feels sort of, I don't know, like I have a student at the back of my mind somewhere, always looking carefully at what I'm doing, meticulously taking notes and pointing out things to me, asking me questions about what I am doing... And then, he's a bit of a jerk sometimes, showing me things to come over the next months and years..."

"I sort of feel like that as well, though mine is a girl made out of all ice, and I can hear her voice in my heard, but it feels like she keeps track of everything I do Sir."
She said.
"And she give me advice."

The door opens and  Adjan comes in with a big cupcake with pink frosting and rainbow sprinkles.
"The good cook had one ready."
He said with a little smile.
"She is a marvel that woman."

(OOC: Sorry for the late reply, I ended up babysitting some dogs.)
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Warpmind on Thu May 19, 2016 2:52 pm

Colin nodded, "You are thinking about these things before they rear their ugly heads. That's the best advice I can give you, really. There's a Jewish proverb, I think - Love Justice, and Do Mercy. It is worth keeping in mind; if someone isn't allowed to live and try to make amends for mistakes, it's a disservice to everyone."
He gave Liv a small wink, "Ah, yes, speaking their names... My bad. I hope you can overlook that little indiscretion?"
He arched an eyebrow, "The cat can teach anyone any language in exchange for Tass? Surely it would require your Master's approval first? I'm given to understand languages like Enochian are considered a big secret, not to be taught to outsiders?"
He grinned, "Seems a fairly unreliable familiar if it can be lured away with a snack like that."
He nodded sagely, then grinned impishly, "Our Avatars are here to teach us, and each teacher has a method they prefer. Mine, it seems, relies on the Socratic method, in a way, rather than stating things outright. If you don't know what that means, I'm sure you could ask your Mentor."

He gave Adjan a grin, "She is a marvel indeed. I'm ever more convinced recruiting her to move to Steelhaven Hall would be worth the political fallout."
He nodded to Liv, "Looks like we found you a little snack here and now. Remember to thank the nice Chakravanti."

((OOC: Poochies! Very Happy ))
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Anja Rebekka Schultze on Thu May 19, 2016 3:13 pm

Colin nodded, "You are thinking about these things before they rear their ugly heads. That's the best advice I can give you, really. There's a Jewish proverb, I think - Love Justice, and Do Mercy. It is worth keeping in mind; if someone isn't allowed to live and try to make amends for mistakes, it's a disservice to everyone."
He gave Liv a small wink, "Ah, yes, speaking their names... My bad. I hope you can overlook that little indiscretion?"

"I will overlook that Sir and try to forget her name."
The little girl said then she nodded.
"Letting people live to make amends is better than just killing them yes, no one earn anything on that."
The little girl agreed.

He arched an eyebrow, "The cat can teach anyone any language in exchange for Tass? Surely it would require your Master's approval first? I'm given to understand languages like Enochian are considered a big secret, not to be taught to outsiders?"
He grinned, "Seems a fairly unreliable familiar if it can be lured away with a snack like that."

"She is not a slave Sir, she can do as she please but she is loyal to my Master and would not teach anyone Enochian as that would get him into trouble, nor would it go anywhere but if someone come to her to learn she will teach in exchange for Tass."
The little girl explained.

He nodded sagely, then grinned impishly, "Our Avatars are here to teach us, and each teacher has a method they prefer. Mine, it seems, relies on the Socratic method, in a way, rather than stating things outright. If you don't know what that means, I'm sure you could ask your Mentor."

"I do not know what that means Sir."
The little girl said then she scratched her head.
"I can ask my Master yes."

He gave Adjan a grin, "She is a marvel indeed. I'm ever more convinced recruiting her to move to Steelhaven Hall would be worth the political fallout."

Adjan laugh and shook his head.
"I don't know Mr Wainwright, after all this Chantry have several Archmages and I have a feeling they would all hate us if we took their cook."

He nodded to Liv, "Looks like we found you a little snack here and now. Remember to thank the nice Chakravanti."

Liv gave a big grin and said to Adjan.
"Thank you Sir."
The Euthanatos smiles he bends down and hands the little girl the plate.
"You are welcome little miss."
He said in heavily accented Latin.
"Enjoy it."
He said. Liv put the cupcake on the table and admired it for a while.
"It is pretty."
She said and smiles.

(OOC: Poochies indeed, two of them, a dachshund and something small and barky.)
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Re: The Mirror Man, Nicolai's Plans and The Grimoire IC Thread 11

Post by Warpmind on Thu May 19, 2016 3:26 pm

Colin nodded, "That does sound better. I was almost momentarily worried about the cat's reliability there... Perhaps I should come visit someday; I've always wanted to learn the Hellenic languages, but it's all Greek to me."
He grinned slyly, "And just remember, if there's any part of your Mentor's explanation you don't understand, keep asking him to clarify. I'm sure you'll figure it out quickly."

He smirked slightly, "Well, that would be the distinction between political fallout and personal vendettas, I suppose. Somehow, I doubt Chief Morgan or even Master Steelhaven would be all that keen to shelter me from that."
He rose again, his stiff knee creaking a little, and sat down on the sofa, stretching his legs with a contented sigh.

((OOC: Something small and barky? So, a terrier/dryad mix or something? Wink ))
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